The Sackville Senior A Combines hockey message board is here for everyone. Discussion is intended to be focused on the Eastern Senior Hockey League and it's teams, however, all hockey related discussion is welcome. Feel free to post questions, comments, trash talk or anything that you feel our hockey community should hear. Information about local hockey players and leauges is also encouraged.
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sackville combines hockey, sackville, combines, new brunswick senior hockey, senior A hockey, darryl johnstone, sackville combines, senior hockey new bruswick
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| From: Marc, Moncton Message ID 5171 |
| Date: Dec-16-2010 10:58 AM |
Post: Were looking for a player or 2 to join our Industrial B team asap. We lost 2 guys to injuries.
It's not Senior A but still fun. We play twice a week at the 4plex and it's decent caliber but no contact.
Let me know if you're interested, we have 24 games left in the season and I think there's a couple senior players in the league because of the lock out.
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| From: TEST, TEST Message ID 5170 |
| Date: Dec-16-2010 10:53 AM |
Post: TEST
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| From: no ,, senior hockey Message ID 5169 |
| Date: Nov-18-2010 3:35 PM |
Post: in NB this year..........come to and end
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| From: yes, no Message ID 5168 |
| Date: Nov-16-2010 7:58 AM |
Post: maybe
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| From: player , who wants to play Message ID 5167 |
| Date: Nov-10-2010 6:16 PM |
Post: is there any senior hockey anywhere else in province this year??willing to travel
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| From: So, So-So Message ID 5166 |
| Date: Nov-10-2010 9:04 AM |
Post: Yes, indeed, they just Name Roger Brun the most sexual active man of the year........look how he fucked up the league in a year.....
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| From: sad fan, memramcook Message ID 5165 |
| Date: Nov-07-2010 8:36 PM |
Post: thank you roger and the owners i drive by the rink in memramcook and there no one there on a sunday night. goign to be a long winter
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| From: agreed, agreed Message ID 5164 |
| Date: Oct-31-2010 10:42 AM |
Post: Anyone who sees Roger Brun around should congratulate him for running the Valley League into the ground. What was once a small, proud and local league is now gone. The talent may have been average, but the intensity and fan support were excellent. The Memramcook rink will be awfully quiet this winter. Thanks Roger.
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| From: suspended, LOL Message ID 5163 |
| Date: Oct-30-2010 6:40 PM |
Post: It's done like dinner. Bring back the valley without roger. Local players, for the local fans.
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| From: It's Official, Moncton Message ID 5162 |
| Date: Oct-30-2010 4:29 PM |
Post: The league has suspended play for the year.
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| From: matador, Bass meter Message ID 5161 |
| Date: Oct-30-2010 1:05 PM |
Post: Shame on you greedy player, now you guys can wait till some pro team call for you, bahhahahahahahah
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| From: moncton, fan Message ID 5160 |
| Date: Oct-29-2010 8:14 PM |
Post: A very good source says there will be no league this year, it has been confirmed...
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| From: to, to tintin south branch, hockey rink Message ID 5159 |
| Date: Oct-29-2010 1:00 PM |
Post: The valley league until for the better part of 20 years was built around local players playing for they village/town. They were not getting paid or any type of compensation. they played because they wanted to represent their area. the arenas were packed, supporting the guys you grew up with or your family members. it was a lot more interesting then going to the rink and wondering who's going to show up, or if they had the money to pay someone so he shows up. the caliber might have been a bit lower, but the intensity and rivalries were strong. Those were the real senior hockey days.
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| From: to tintin south branch, hockey rink Message ID 5158 |
| Date: Oct-28-2010 2:27 PM |
Post: Its no longer rec hockey when there is contact and fighting and that what make it competitive and that what keeps the fans coming organize your own shinney league on your own time
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| From: cap-pele, practices? Message ID 5157 |
| Date: Oct-27-2010 2:51 PM |
Post: Moncton paper says Cap-pele is holding tryouts. For what league?
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| From: the, truth Message ID 5156 |
| Date: Oct-27-2010 9:00 AM |
Post: never before did the teams have to pay a "league entry fee" so they could play. that fee was ridiculous and never should've been agreed upon. it's not the reason it folded, but it's just one of the many reasons.
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| From: valley fan, dieppe Message ID 5155 |
| Date: Oct-26-2010 4:24 PM |
Post: hey retard, the league ran with 4 teams for a year before but back then the president wasn't in it to make money, he just wanted hockey for the fans! this idiot is just in it for the money, and if you don't believe that you havn't been around alot!
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| From: Tintin, South Branch Message ID 5154 |
| Date: Oct-26-2010 3:05 PM |
Post: Get a life Valley fan, blaming Bouctouche cause half the team are folding, it is ashame that no senior hockey will be played in the province of NB. Players are to blame also, they want $$$$ to play recreational hockey. If they want to get paid they can try out for pro teams but they are not good enough to make those team, so if you are not good enough well you don`t deserve to be paid.
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| From: to valley, fan Message ID 5153 |
| Date: Oct-26-2010 12:01 PM |
Post: Roger had nothign to do with it, sackville, Richibucto folded leaving the valley with Bct, Cap Pele, Shediac and Memramcook... Bouctouche then said they would fold if Tracadie and the gang didn't join... so if you wanna blame someone, blame Shawn McDonald for refusing to stay in the league so he could make money off Tracadie
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| From: valley fan, dieppe Message ID 5152 |
| Date: Oct-25-2010 4:14 PM |
Post: everyone use to complain about donald bourque, but the guy run the league for 25 years with some ups and downs but still every year we had hockey. everything roger gets involved with goes down hill!! Atta boy roger 3 years a you ruin a good local hockey league just because your greedy!!
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| From: after a few, years Message ID 5151 |
| Date: Oct-24-2010 8:52 PM |
Post: roger finally puts the last nail in the coffin. they should start a Shediac/Cap Pele/Bouctouche/Memramcook league with no imports. local players. the caliber will be whatever it is, the fans are going to show up to support their local talent
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| From: ,, , Message ID 5150 |
| Date: Oct-24-2010 7:44 PM |
Post: No League
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| From: typical, roger brun organization Message ID 5149 |
| Date: Oct-23-2010 7:36 PM |
Post: no one knows what's going on, that's good for business Roger, keep it up.
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| From: is there, or isn't there Message ID 5148 |
| Date: Oct-23-2010 6:38 PM |
Post: a league?????????? there are 3 people that want to know
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| From: me here , ... Message ID 5147 |
| Date: Oct-20-2010 3:27 PM |
Post: Word just out no league this year.... no team in shediac
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| From: when is the, start of this exciting season Message ID 5146 |
| Date: Oct-18-2010 10:52 AM |
Post: the league normally starts playing in a week. the this is going, could be mid november.
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| From: Pererr, bouctouche Message ID 5145 |
| Date: Oct-18-2010 12:02 AM |
Post: It`s gonna be an exciting hockey season in the east!!
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| From: test, test Message ID 5144 |
| Date: Oct-16-2010 1:33 PM |
Post: test
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| From: so..., what teams are in? Message ID 5143 |
| Date: Oct-11-2010 10:01 PM |
Post: do we (finally) know the teams that are in for this year? most leagues have started, and the Valley league is still spinning its wheels
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| From: ESHL , Moncton Message ID 5142 |
| Date: Oct-08-2010 11:56 AM |
Post: The ESHL website is presently under construction. The site will now have a discussion board among other new features. The discussion board will be limited to hockey talk only. The ESHL will advise when ready.
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| From: Interested, Player Message ID 5141 |
| Date: Oct-05-2010 6:18 PM |
Post: When is shediac's training camp starting?
Looking for some info! Thanks!
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| From: wow, roger Message ID 5140 |
| Date: Oct-03-2010 9:55 PM |
Post: with all the money your making with "your" league, you can't even keep your website running.
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| From: any , word Message ID 5139 |
| Date: Oct-01-2010 11:29 AM |
Post: on richibucto players and where they went
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| From: Memramcook players, picked up in draft Message ID 5138 |
| Date: Oct-01-2010 10:20 AM |
Post: Shediac
Mike Breau
Luke Betts
Chris Dupuis
Devon Guitard
Jamie McCabe
Billy Riley
Zach Tessier
Ken Therrien
Cap Pele
Jean Marc Bourgeois
Jean Yves Cormier
Stephane Dion
Marc Gagnon
Antonio Mekary
Guillaume Saulnier
Bouctouche
Denis Hache
Corey Martin
Lucas Martin
Jason Thibodeau
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| From: if they, skip a year Message ID 5137 |
| Date: Sep-30-2010 9:16 AM |
Post: then it's all over. gotta get it going this year or else.
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| From: great, idea! Message ID 5136 |
| Date: Sep-29-2010 9:44 PM |
Post: great idea... return to a local league with local players, and no money thrown around
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| From: why, don't Message ID 5135 |
| Date: Sep-28-2010 10:28 PM |
Post: Shediac, Cap Pele, Memramcook and Sackville get together and create they're own league with local players. it would be cheap to run and it would get the same amount of fans because of the local talent.
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| From: it was written, in stone Message ID 5134 |
| Date: Sep-28-2010 10:25 PM |
Post: the day roger took over. it was just a matter of time so after 25 years roger ruins it in 3-4 years. good job
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| From: player, memramcook Message ID 5133 |
| Date: Sep-28-2010 4:34 PM |
Post: All the memramcook fans and players can thank roger brun and shawn mcdonald for them not having a team!! How much money did tracadie give you shawn?? did you tell your players?? and no doubt roger got a bunch a money?!
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| From: Jim Bob, Dieppe Message ID 5132 |
| Date: Sep-28-2010 12:01 PM |
Post: M'cook will not be having a team this year!
It's too bad after the great season they had last year! Hopefully the team will be back next year even better than what they were!
When is the draft for sackville and mcook players will be?
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| From: re, curious fan Message ID 5131 |
| Date: Sep-27-2010 10:43 AM |
Post: Sussex and Miramichi have been officially accepted into the league, it llooks like the rest of teams cant decide to accept tracadie or not, depending if tracadie is in or not, i hear bouctouche or memramcook will fold
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| From: curious fan, ... Message ID 5130 |
| Date: Sep-26-2010 9:55 PM |
Post: so what's the verdict? any news on what has been decided during the meeting tonight?
hopefully there will be a positive outcome out of what has been going on in the past few weeks in order to keep the league up and running!
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| From: cook, ...... Message ID 5129 |
| Date: Sep-20-2010 10:51 PM |
Post: nothing official yet in memramcook until league meeting this weeks.. more details to come after sunday!
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| From: M'cook Managment, M'cook Message ID 5128 |
| Date: Sep-20-2010 9:14 PM |
Post: Try outs are cancelled!
After tonight's team meeting, the team will be folding for the 2010-2011 season!
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| From: M'cook Managment, M'cook Message ID 5127 |
| Date: Sep-20-2010 9:10 PM |
Post: Try outs are cancelled!
After tonight's team meeting, the team will be folding for the 2010-2011 season!
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| From: ..., //// Message ID 5126 |
| Date: Sep-20-2010 7:56 PM |
Post: Who is M'cooks management this year? and the coach? Before guys go tryout, maybe it would be nice to know who they'd be playing for.
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| From: M'cook Managment, ... Message ID 5125 |
| Date: Sep-20-2010 7:52 PM |
Post: Memramcook will have open try outs during the following dates:
Sunday, September 26th, 9h in Memramcook
Friday, October 1st, 9h15 AJL (Dieppe)
Sunday, October 3rd, 7h in Memramcook
The cost for the try outs is 40$ per players.
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| From: M'cook Managment, ... Message ID 5124 |
| Date: Sep-20-2010 7:23 PM |
Post: Memramcook will have open try outs during the following dates:
Sunday, September 26th, 9h in Memramcook
Friday, October 1st, 9h15 AJL (Dieppe)
Sunday, October 3rd, 7h in Memramcook
The cost for the try outs is 40$ per players.
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| From: M'cook Managment, ... Message ID 5123 |
| Date: Sep-20-2010 6:54 PM |
Post: Memramcook will have open try outs during the following dates:
Sunday, September 26th, 9h in Memramcook
Friday, October 1st, 9h15 AJL (Dieppe)
Sunday, October 3rd, 7h in Memramcook
The cost for the try outs is 40$ per players.
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| From: and the idiots start, ... Message ID 5122 |
| Date: Sep-20-2010 4:34 PM |
Post: All from Tracadie region? then that's an awefully big region that spans to Quebec. I'm pretty sure Betournay isn't a Tracadie boy. Also, can't see Louden and Blom being typical Tracadie names hahah. You have a goood team, no doubt. But spare us the BS this early.
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| From: Tracadie Alpine, Tracadie Message ID 5121 |
| Date: Sep-20-2010 10:33 AM |
Post: Hi,
Tracadie-Sheila new to the league with a packed team.
I predict them the championship for this year.
if they have this lineup
Goaler:
C.Austin
A-L Leclerc
Def:
Christian Brideau
Fred Sonier
A.Chiasson
Jamie Blom
Patrick Louden
Ryan Fergusson
Foward:
Martin McGraw
Remi Doucet
Eric Betournay
Michel Savoie
Fred Doucet
Junior Brideau
Glen Robichaud
Glen Fergusson
Michel Losier
Marc Losier
Daniel Basque
Carl-André Devost
All player in Tracadie region.
Plus new ones and import????
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| From: even, worse Message ID 5120 |
| Date: Sep-19-2010 11:03 PM |
Post: Players fighting penalties will accumulate during the season. start getting suspensions after multiple fights. after 6 your done for the season, that includes the playoffs. Starting to feel like the end of senior hockey in canada.
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| From: eshl, fan Message ID 5119 |
| Date: Sep-19-2010 6:38 PM |
Post: All senior leagues accros the country will now have the one fight rule. Due to the insurance and security mesures.
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| From: the, facts Message ID 5118 |
| Date: Sep-17-2010 11:37 AM |
Post: Caraquet, Tracadie and Miramichi are joining the ESHL. There will be 1 home and home between the teams from the north shore and the eshl before christmas and one after. the eshl team will travel on a saturday to play one team, stay overnight to play sunday afternoon the other. Tracadie and caraquet will help with travelling and expenses. Sackville and richibucto are out. the draft for the rich players has already been done. no word on the draft for sackville players.
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| From: eshl fan, Moncton Message ID 5117 |
| Date: Sep-15-2010 7:45 PM |
Post: Hearing rumours...I do not think this will happen as it is difficult enough to get players to travel the little bit that is required in the ESHL let alone having to travel to Tracadie etc...I do admit, it would certainly be a good idea but I do not see that happening anytime soon. If Sackville and Richibucto do not have a team this year, it could be the end of the ESHL...that would be a shame...
Any other rumours out there? I had heard that Sussex may have a team, any truth to that?
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| From: hearing rumours, ... Message ID 5116 |
| Date: Sep-15-2010 3:58 PM |
Post: so, the new rumours are that the valley and northshore will be joining into 1 league. Any thoughts? I think its a great idea but really don't think the eastern teams have the budget (or deep pockets) for it. Northern teams are use to paying players (for games or travel expenses) while, for the most part, its a luxury down here. I'd love to go watch Tracadie play in M'cook on a sunday but I have my doubts that it will truly happen.
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| From: sad, fan Message ID 5115 |
| Date: Sep-14-2010 9:59 PM |
Post: if there's no team in sackville will there still be a message board hopefully so because the league wouldt be the same.
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| From: tests, test Message ID 5114 |
| Date: Sep-06-2010 9:03 PM |
Post: valley league is back
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| From: , Message ID 5113 |
| Date: Sep-06-2010 9:02 PM |
Post:
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| From: Fan, valley Message ID 5112 |
| Date: Sep-04-2010 6:44 PM |
Post: no team in CP this year. Without CP and Richi, the league will have a very tough time drawing fan interest. It is what it is.
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| From: local follower, Moncton Message ID 5111 |
| Date: Sep-03-2010 8:44 PM |
Post: I am hearing rumours that the following teams will be in this season:
Bouctouche
Cap-Pele
Memramcook
Sackville
Shediac
Sussex
Can anyone confirm?
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| From: no team, in richibucto? Message ID 5110 |
| Date: Jun-06-2010 8:25 PM |
Post: this a rumour? be interesting to see johnson sack maloney in cap pele if they have a team and richi does not
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| From: CUP , predictions... Message ID 5109 |
| Date: May-18-2010 11:45 AM |
Post: I say it will be Chicago & Philly. Chicago in 5.
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| From: whats , with Message ID 5107 |
| Date: May-16-2010 5:18 PM |
Post: all the crap on here this is supposed to be a hockey site you losers need to go somewhere else enough is enough.
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| From: ESHL / LHSE, Moncton Message ID 5091 |
| Date: May-07-2010 5:18 PM |
Post: Any individual or group interested in joining the ESHL should contact the Executive. Contact info may be found on the League's official website at easternseniorhockey.com
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| From: sackville, management group Message ID 5090 |
| Date: May-07-2010 5:18 PM |
Post: Definately yes. We feel this league is willing to look at new teams. You should get in contact with Roger Brun. If you go to the E.S.H.L. site (on the links tab) at the top of this page you will find his contact info.
Good luck to you & your group.
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| From: is , this Message ID 5089 |
| Date: May-07-2010 12:56 PM |
Post: league open for expansion? just wondering our group might be interested ,just putting it out here first to see the responce.Our group is not sure where to play as of yet,having said that we will be ready to play somewhere come Oct.
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| From: that's good new, for the league Message ID 5077 |
| Date: May-03-2010 1:09 PM |
Post: with no richibucto, there should be no need to pay players. get back to the 15-18 local players and back into running these teams as hobbies not a job. without the financial risk to management. the fans will enjoy this a lot more, there will always be the ones saying that the league is not as strong. it's still local players there to entertain, if you don't like it don't go to games, plenty of local people will go support their teams.
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| From: to ESHL FAN, here Message ID 5074 |
| Date: May-02-2010 11:06 PM |
Post: I also did speak to a member of RCTO's executive,and he said that there would be no team next year ,due to the fact that there was no rink. Not a rumor,but fact from exec member.
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| From: good, luck Message ID 5068 |
| Date: Apr-30-2010 5:21 PM |
Post: with that sussex team ,great hockey town however if merle stewart is involved the league will go down the tubes with in two years,lets do our homework and keep stewart out as coach or owner because thats how he went about destroying other leagues.I believe with out stewart involved sussex would be a great hockey town and our league will survive.
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| From: ESHL fan, Moncton Message ID 5067 |
| Date: Apr-30-2010 1:06 PM |
Post: All of you with your rumours about certain team not operating next year, I went & checked around both with some teams and executive, all existing teams so far are returning with possibility of Cap Pele returning and new teams from either Sussex or Petitcodiac and also Moncton. Let's just wait and see, at this time of year, it's just too early to tell. Let's stop making unfounded rumours.
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| From: cevaSileincal, Luxembourg Message ID 5066 |
| Date: Apr-30-2010 6:04 AM |
Post: Good Day i'm fresh here. I came upon this message board I find It truly accommodating & it's helped me a lot. I should be able to contribute and assist others like its helped me.
Thanks, See Ya Around
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| From: traicteject, USA Message ID 5065 |
| Date: Apr-29-2010 9:25 PM |
Post: Hey
Really glad to get into this forum
It's what I am looking for.
Hope to know more member here.
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| From: lhjmq, qmjhl Message ID 5064 |
| Date: Apr-29-2010 8:39 PM |
Post: predictions st. john vs moncton?????
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| From: me , wsm Message ID 5063 |
| Date: Apr-29-2010 7:50 PM |
Post: Heard from a good source in RCTO,NO rink or team for next year!
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| From: who, the Message ID 5062 |
| Date: Apr-29-2010 5:35 PM |
Post: hell is this guy that says there is no team nexxt year in mcook
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| From: cant, have Message ID 5061 |
| Date: Apr-29-2010 9:42 AM |
Post: the same five teams no team in mcook
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| From: long time fan, dieppe Message ID 5060 |
| Date: Apr-29-2010 8:12 AM |
Post: Joining with the SHL is not the answer. To much travel associated with that. Our owners don't have the money for that (or just aren't in that sort of spending mood). Working on this league, with these teams, is. Make the league stronger and the teams stronger. Build up a solid constitution and follow it. The league (and its executives) should almost have a business plan in place for the league to get better and better. The playoffs had a great atmmosphere and we need to build on that. If the same 5 teams stay and a possible return of CP, look good be very interesting.
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| From: just, maybe Message ID 5057 |
| Date: Apr-28-2010 7:44 PM |
Post: if the league is in trouble maybe our league ESHL could get together with the teams that remain in the SHL and join together and make one league ,just some thought to keep senior hockey alive it just might work with a bit of input from both leagues,something to explore .........
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| From: can, someone Message ID 5054 |
| Date: Apr-28-2010 4:31 PM |
Post: comfirm that there is no team in mcook next year
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| From: blacks , harbour Message ID 5053 |
| Date: Apr-28-2010 12:59 PM |
Post: is looking for a place to play Merle is moving somewhere this league or the Mir. league ,however alot of people say he is poison Iam hearing he ruined the SHL now is looking elsewhere.
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| From: Well if richi is out next year, and mcook is out Message ID 5051 |
| Date: Apr-28-2010 11:54 AM |
Post: can't see a league with 3 teams, bct-shed-sack just won't do it.........was this the last year for senior hockey, i guess the industrial league just got a whole lot better........sure they aren't being payed to play up there, playing for the love of the game, to bad wasn't the same for the valley league...
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| From: no, team Message ID 5048 |
| Date: Apr-27-2010 10:20 PM |
Post: in mcook
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| From: is, there Message ID 5047 |
| Date: Apr-27-2010 7:00 PM |
Post: enough locals to compete in mem ?
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| From: out , of mcook Message ID 5039 |
| Date: Apr-25-2010 1:22 PM |
Post: they spent to much money probally hard to come back and loose money again,need more locals but easier said than done.
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| From: heard at, tim hortons Message ID 5035 |
| Date: Apr-24-2010 1:00 PM |
Post: that there where no team in mcook next year.
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| From: one other award, given out last night Message ID 5033 |
| Date: Apr-23-2010 8:29 PM |
Post: NB senior hockey league of the year = none,,, they all were so disgraceful it wasn't worth giving to anyone
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| From: President of the , year Message ID 5032 |
| Date: Apr-23-2010 11:16 AM |
Post: Roger Brun
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| From: any, news Message ID 5031 |
| Date: Apr-23-2010 7:28 AM |
Post: awards
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| From: roger brun, gala 7pm tonight Message ID 5030 |
| Date: Apr-22-2010 12:32 PM |
Post: enjoy
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| From: thought on, awards Message ID 5029 |
| Date: Apr-22-2010 10:27 AM |
Post: who will win what?
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| From: ESHL GALA, tonight at 7:00 pm Message ID 5028 |
| Date: Apr-22-2010 9:18 AM |
Post: The Eastern Senior A Hockey League will be honouring their own tonight at the Manhattan Grill & Bar. All players, staff & their guests are welcome.
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| From: I, work for a living Message ID 5027 |
| Date: Apr-21-2010 11:24 PM |
Post: I see what's going on...now that Cap-Pele is out of the league,and that they can't be blamed for all the issues/problems with the league,it all becomes RCTO fault.So if you are a good team and the league is deteriating,then it all has to be your fault...cause if the team would suck and not draw any fans,then it would be OK.???
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| From: you heard , it here first Message ID 5025 |
| Date: Apr-21-2010 9:39 AM |
Post: Merle Stewart is comming to a rink near you and will take over ,look out .
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| From: just, and fyi Message ID 5022 |
| Date: Apr-20-2010 9:58 AM |
Post: it's because of richibucto that other teams have to spend the extra money to compete. fans were coming out to support their team a lot more when there was 15 locals playing. i've been following the league for 20 years and i've seen the changes happen. fans would prefer have the caliber of hockey a little bit lower and have local players on the teams. the provincial was never a goal for senior teams in our league. it was keeping the local players playing hockey.
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| From: me, wsm Message ID 5020 |
| Date: Apr-19-2010 11:57 PM |
Post: And I suppose no other teams in the league pay their players ....right?gimme a break!
Hats off to RCTO and their fans,for even finishing the year,without having a home rink.Nice to see a lot of the fans followed the team to Cocagne to support the guys.Not like other teams,where 20-30 people show up for the games!
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| From: what's, good for richibucto Message ID 5019 |
| Date: Apr-19-2010 10:49 PM |
Post: isn't good for the league. how can it be good to have a team that spends way too much money, and then just decides that their going to fold next just because with not a care in the world if it folds the league or not. and every year it's a delay because richibucto doesn't know if they will have a team or not, depending if they can find enough skilled players, the start of the season is delayed which makes it an uneven schedule, the list can go on.
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| From: league, fan Message ID 5018 |
| Date: Apr-19-2010 10:17 PM |
Post: dont start cormier is good for the league.if it wasent for him rich would not have hokey.and you neder
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| From: why, do they Message ID 5017 |
| Date: Apr-19-2010 6:08 PM |
Post: have individuel awards johnny will probably buy them all like he does with the championship
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| From: ffefre, fr Message ID 5016 |
| Date: Apr-19-2010 4:49 PM |
Post: Rookie of the year????????
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